Learn The Framework

Become an Email Marketing Pro with Liz Wilcox | Digital Podcaster with Dylan Schmidt Episode 21

Liz Wilcox on Digital Podcaster
 

There must be something in the air… 

I’ve had quite a few people ask me where to get started with email marketing lately. 

I think it’s a mixture of people getting tired of social media algorithms always changing. 

Social media timelines will always be a battle for attention. Sure there is a battle in your inbox too…but generally speaking it’s easier for you to find and connect with emails than it is missing posts on social media. 

Also, email is more personal. 

Here I am typing this message just for you. I don’t know about you but this just feels more personal. I’m writing this to you. This is not a post for Instagram. 

My guest this week on the podcast is Liz Wilcox. 

Liz Wilcox is an email marketing WIZ! 

Every email she sends - I open. I save. 

She is so good at what she does, I promise you that. 

This is the first episode where when I listen back, there are parts where I laugh like I’m 5 years old. 

And we’re talking about email marketing!! How does that happen? Liz is why that happens. 

Making money with email has never been so fun. I promise. 

Please enjoy my conversation with Liz!

-Dylan

Click here to listen on Apple Podcasts. 

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Liz is The Fresh Princess of Email Marketing, Liz Wilcox is on a freakin' mission to help more businesses package up their magic and sell through email. She's also a walking 90s pop culture encyclopedia.

>Click here to learn more about how you can work with the amazing Liz Wilcox.

Transcription

Lightly edited for readability

Dylan Schmidt:

Welcome to Digital Podcaster. My name is Dylan Schmidt, your host, and today I have a great episode with a email marketing whizz. Her name is Liz Wilcox. I learned of Liz Wilcox a couple months ago and I've been obsessed ever since. I open every email she sends out. I love how she combines '90s nostalgia with email marketing to semi-unrelated things, I guess, and it's really fun. She's really fun. I was looking forward to recording this episode for a while because I knew she'd be a blast to talk to. And email marketing to me is a little bit stuffy, a little bit... I don't know. It just seems a little bit old or something. Like email marketing, no one's like, "Yeah, email marketing." It's always like, "What's happening on social media?", all those things.

Dylan Schmidt:

But obviously there's so much value in email marketing because you can connect with possible clients, your audience, all those things much more effectively through email, right? Because it's more of a one-to-one conversation. And Liz does this so well. I know because I get entranced in her own emails when she sends them out. Every email she sends out, I make sure to save every single one. So I'm really excited to share my conversation with Liz. And here is Liz Wilcox.

Dylan Schmidt:

Welcome to Digital Podcaster, Liz. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so happy-

Liz Wilcox:

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I love your stuff. I think everything you do is pristine. I put on my uniform today. If you're just listening and you can't see me, I've got Will Smith on, I've got the headband. I'm ready to go. I'm ready to nail this. I'm excited.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. And your eyes... Not your eyes, sorry. His eyes are like right above the-

Liz Wilcox:

Like the Zoom box.

Dylan Schmidt:

Like right in the video. It's like just enough. So I feel like I'm being watched, but by Will Smith. I feel like I'm going to be more better. Like I need him probably watching me all day.

Liz Wilcox:

Yes.

Dylan Schmidt:

Side note, I have a couple side notes throughout this episode.

Liz Wilcox:

Great.

Dylan Schmidt:

But first side note is I have a friend that works in security. Just say that. And I don't even know if I'm supposed to say this, but I just say it because it's vague enough, but he was the security for Will Smith's kids growing up. Because I'm in LA, you always have those crazy stories of-

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah. Wow.

Dylan Schmidt:

And he had nothing but the absolute nicest things to say about his kids. And he watched them for years, like he would do their homework with them at night. But he just was always saying how nice and courteous they were as kids. And it just always struck me as really cool to hear. Because oftentimes you usually hear the bad stuff about people's kids or growing up probably wealthy or something.

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah. You literally grow up famous. It's hard to be a kid and not be a brat anyway, but then you're famous and your dad is the biggest celebrity in the world when they were growing up. You know? He was like really famous. So that's really cool. Thanks for sharing that.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. And it's sometimes hard to be an adult and not be a brat, you know?

Liz Wilcox:

Amen.

Dylan Schmidt:

So first things I got to get out of the way is who's your favorite member of NSYNC and why is it Lance?

Liz Wilcox:

Lance is my favorite nowadays. For me, Lance Bass is... I'm glad you said that because Lance Bass is a business man. So he's actually the second richest member of NSYNC, which obviously Justin Timberlake, of course he kept going, kept building his wealth, but-

Dylan Schmidt:

Justin Timberlake, you said?

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah, yeah.

Dylan Schmidt:

Oh, sure. Okay.

Liz Wilcox:

You might have heard he was in a couple movies.

Dylan Schmidt:

Oh, okay. Got it.

Liz Wilcox:

So Lance is a wonderful businessman and he does social media really well. If you're interested in sponsorships, partnerships, check out Lance Bass and how he does stuff and how he does social media content for his sponsors and stuff. It's really cool. But honestly, I'm so glad you asked this question, and if you're kind of tuned out because you're not an NSYNC fan, listen up, because this is business related too.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. Tune in, y'all.

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah. Tune in, baby. Turn it up and tune in. Okay. So Chris Kirkpatrick is actually my favorite. And if you don't know Chris Kirkpatrick, it's no wonder. He was kind of the least popular in the group. He actually founded the group. It was his idea and he brought Justin Timberlake in and everybody else.

Liz Wilcox:

But the reason why I love Chris Kirkpatrick, and you can Google him later and you'll see what I mean if you don't know what he looks like, for me, he just felt like he didn't belong. He could have been in any band. He could have been in Blink-182, Nirvana, but he was just this guy, literally standing next to teenage heartthrobs, like JC Chasez, Joey Fatone, and Justin Timberlake, and he was doing his own thing. He was like, "Yep, I created this group. I belong up here on stage with my pineapple dreadlocks and my braces and my acne, just the same as Justin Timberlake." Right?

Liz Wilcox:

And for me as a kid, I was really weird. I was really shy and seeing him up on these posters, I literally have a poster behind me, I'm staring at him, seeing someone like that up there doing his thing, singing alongside these literal hotties, like these people that were so popular, and with the confidence that he had, it made me feel confident that maybe I have my place among the crowd as well. And maybe I can even stand out and be friends with and literally link arms and create something, have friendships alongside that.

Liz Wilcox:

And on another note, he, like me, grew up really poor, and he started the group because he wanted to break those chains of poverty and really get his mom... His mom was a single mom. He didn't have much contact with his dad, and he started the business and started the band because he wanted to get his family out of being poor. And that really resonated with me. I was really close to my mom. Even today, I financially support my mom and her household. And so that was something that even at a young age, I was like, "Yeah, I'm going to do that one day too." So that's why he's my favorite member.

Dylan Schmidt:

That's incredible. I had no idea. And wow. Yeah, that's amazing. I love a good underdog story, you know?

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dylan Schmidt:

And like all about it. And high school and middle school and stuff, I was really into punk and rock and things like that, and it just always felt like the underdog thing. And hearing you say that about Chris Kirkpatrick, I'm like, "Wow, I'm not going to see him the same when I watch YouTube videos and see all that, watch all those videos." Because I agree. At night, sometimes I'll go on YouTube and just go through a run of '90s music videos. And I look at Chris Kirkpatrick and like, yeah, you're right, He does kind of stand out as not your typical.

Liz Wilcox:

Right. He stands out, but not in the way that like JT or JC stands out like, "Oh wow, that guy's really talented and he's very good looking." Right? In a way where it's like, what is this guy doing here? But at the end of the day, he founded the band, he sought out Justin Timberlake specifically and was kind of the brains behind driving them at the beginning. And it's just really inspiring to me.

Dylan Schmidt:

That's amazing. Do you think if Chris Kirkpatrick started NSYNC in 2022, he would be up to date on the email best practices?

Liz Wilcox:

I hope so. So what I will say, and maybe this is an episode about what we can learn from boy bands about marketing. Right? And so I will say NSYNC and a lot of boy bands, they very much keep up with the times. I truly believe teenage girls run the economy, right?

Dylan Schmidt:

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Liz Wilcox:

Especially, they run the music industry for sure and run that. And so NSYNC was always partnering. They did McDonald's, they partnered with Britney Spears for years. I'm pretty sure they had like a cereal in Japan. I don't know. I might have just made that up.

Dylan Schmidt:

I believe it. No, that sounds like... They always make crazy stuff, you know?

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah. Like literally on this picture in the background is a tag from their ChapStick that my daughter [inaudible 00:08:48].

Dylan Schmidt:

Oh wow.

Liz Wilcox:

They had their own ChapStick brand, they had their own board game, they had their own cell phone. And then when the internet started becoming a thing, they were one of the first to have like NSYNC.com, they had their own where you could email them and they would literally email you back. There's videos of them talking about it on TRL where they're like, "Yes, we actually email back."

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. And people are like, "What's email?"

Liz Wilcox:

And I'm like, "Yes." Because that's one of the things I always tell people is you've got to make your email open. Right? Automations are great, they're awesome. But at the end of the day, if you're not making some personal connection, if you're not truly connecting with your audience, people are going to know that, especially it's 2022, like Dylan said, people are savvy. They know when something's automated and when you just sent it out. Right?

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. Yeah. And for a couple years I got into collecting baseball memorabilia, and I think there's like a crossover with pop culture. And of course NSYNC obviously is huge part of pop culture, but baseball memorabilia as well. And a lot of the older, seemingly older baseball players that... They still do fan letters. You can write them, send it to a place and they'll mail it back. And if they were probably doing email, they'd probably do that too, but people like a handwritten letter, and they'll still write handwritten letters. And it kind of makes me think of that too. They're coming from a different generation, but that staying power they have of relevancy or people still talking about them or wanting their autograph or a letter, I think partly is because they take the time. It's not like it's automated of like, "Thank you for your response," like in a computer generated thing.

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah. I have a few thoughts on that. So number one is the way Dylan was talking about people will actually get real letters back. So your mailbox and your inbox, people behave the exact same way. And so when you go out to your mailbox, let's say you've got three, four pieces of mail, like, "Oh, that's junk. Oh, that's a bill. I'm going to open that later. Oh my gosh, I don't know this Justin Guy. He must have lived here back in the day. Oh my gosh, Dylan sent me something." Suddenly you drop those other three pieces of mail and you open up Dylan's personal mail immediately. "Oh my gosh, I can't believe he sent me something. Like a real something. This is awesome. Let me open it."

Liz Wilcox:

So people act the same way in their inbox. Like, "Oh, that's a bill. I'm going to open that later because I know it's not due right now. Oh, Justin, I don't know how they got my email. Oh, that's spam. I'm going to delete that right now. Oh my gosh, Liz sent me something. This is awesome. I'm going to open it right now." And suddenly you have those three, four emails, totally unopened. And most people say, "Oh, I've got 10,000 unread emails, email doesn't work." But it does work the same way it works in your mailbox when you can create that feeling of, "Wow, Dylan sent me something. Michelle sent me something. Liz, Justin, Lance, whatever your name is, sent me something." That's when you stand out above the crowd and that's when you really have made something click and email can work for you.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. And I always open your emails every time. And it's funny because... Oh, okay. I'll ask you this. I'll ask you this really obvious to you question, but it's not obvious to me. Why... You know, I just thought of this question not that long ago and now I'm going to fumble with it. Why do I love opening your emails?

Liz Wilcox:

I don't know, Dylan. Why? Yeah. Well, actually, I just wrote it down. So why does Dylan love opening my emails? And also why do some of those, going back to the baseball thing, why do people love when you send them personal letters? It all comes to what I call the email staircase. First you've got a follower, then you have a friend, and then you have a customer. And when you have this list of friends, you can create products that they need. Right?

Liz Wilcox:

And so how do you create a friend? How do you get somebody to open your emails and be so excited about them? There's only three things you need. And the baseball player writing to you is the first one. You've got to invest your time in them. For Dylan, it's very clear Liz Wilcox invests her time. She knows who she's talking to. Right? We got on this call, we immediately start talking about NSYNC. Dylan knows who I am. And also, I've done my research to know a lot of my ideal people are millennials who, especially in this pandemic, we just want to feel good about a time where we felt good, and NSYNC, Will Smith, Seinfeld, Friends, Saved by the Bell, all those things are taking us back to a time where things were simpler.

Liz Wilcox:

Right now we're recording this as 2022. We've been two years in a pandemic. Things do not feel good, right? So why not talk about stuff that makes us feel good? I've invested my time in Dylan, in my subscribers enough for them to feel connected. Right? Like, wow, Liz really gets me. Every email that I write, the little micro conversion that I'm thinking about is I want Dylan, I want Justin, I want Lance to be nodding their head like, "Oh yeah, Liz totally gets me. Yep, she's so on point." Right? And so that's the little micro conversion every single week. That's how you turn someone into a friend.

Liz Wilcox:

So number two, you have to share in a relatable way. So I used to have an RV travel blog. My audience was full of men in their mid 60s with 2.3 kids on their way to college, they want to retire and finally travel the country with their wife. Right? I am not talking about NSYNC to Jeff. That was my ideal client, Jeff. Or I call them Rich or one of those names. Bob, right? I'm not talking about NSYNC that way. That's not relatable to them. So if I want to inject pop culture, maybe I'm talking about the Grateful Dead, Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, Led Zeppelin. Stuff that they're going to relate to. I'm talking about fun, campground activities. Those are things I would never talk about with this email marketing. That's not relatable. So think about what's relatable. I was telling that story about investing. I was talking about, oh gosh, 2022, 2021, 2020, like it's all been crazy. That's me sharing in a relatable way. We all have been living through that experience.

Liz Wilcox:

And then, number three, I stay top of mind, right? You've got to stay top of mind. I email you every Tuesday probably between 10:00 AM and 2:00 PM, whenever I've got that 40 minutes or whatever, and that's staying top of mind. For my people, I know once a week is a sweet spot. If you're eCommerce or something, you've got a brick and mortar or a non-traditional online business, you might find you need to email more, you might find you need to email less to stay top of mind. If you're working with single moms with special needs kids, you have to really find that sweet spot where you stay top of mind without being excessive or without going too long that they forget about you. I do find once a week is usually a sweet spot, but I challenge you to just try it out and see what works for you.

Liz Wilcox:

So those three things. Stay top of mind, share in a relatable way, invest your time. That really comes through, and that's why Dylan loves to open my emails.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. And it's true. I do, like every time. Because it doesn't feel heavy and hearing you say all that makes it all make all sense in my brain because when I open your emails, I don't feel like, "Oh, Liz is going to put something on me." You know? It's a light feeling. It's not like getting something from the news. It's not like, "Oh, that many people died today. Great."

Liz Wilcox:

Oh yeah. Wow. Yeah. He went there, folks. You heard it here first. No, and I love that and that's so true because my ideal person right now is a business owner just trying to make it work, maybe juggling a few different marketing strategies. And so my emails are very short. Like today's newsletter went out, I think it had 268 words. But I actually gave five tips in that email, and still, it was around that 250 mark.

Liz Wilcox:

When I was traveling in my RV, those people... I sent Sunday nights, every Sunday night, I knew they were sitting down, maybe they're watching episodes of M*A*S*H, they're doing something. And my emails were much longer because that was sharing in a relatable way. They wanted to hear about my travels. They wanted to know where I was at in the journey. And also, that's me investing my time. I didn't do as many podcast episodes, as much social media. I knew they love emails the same way they handwritten letters. Of course we all do, but they're from that generation of people actually writing two, three pages out, and so their tolerance for those longer emails is better.

Liz Wilcox:

So think about your ideal person and think about the length of the emails. And that's another thing that makes people want to open my emails is I think, "What's their tolerance? What's their capacity for today?" And if you don't have time to write it, chances are they don't have time to read it. That's just a rule of thumb, okay?

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. I love that. And I think I've heard you say that before because it's in the back of my mind of you on my shoulder, just like, "If you don't have the time to write it, they don't have the time to read it."

Liz Wilcox:

Amen, baby. Take us to church, Dylan.

Dylan Schmidt:

Bring in the choir. Just the boy bands come out.

Dylan Schmidt:

So one thing that's interesting hearing like the psychology, I guess, I sound like a doctor all of a sudden, but when... Like me, I'm an inbox zero type of person, right? I do not like to have one email in my inbox. I'll either snooze it if it's important, archive if I want it for later, unsubscribe it if I never want to see it again, or delete it if I just don't want it to take up any space. And one thing that I... And I fall under that millennial thing I think is when I get those short emails, it's like I just need to know if it's an archive or a snooze, really. And you do such a great job with that.

Dylan Schmidt:

Like with your email this morning, it talked about... There was just one line that stood out to me of not needing a funnel. And I'm just like, whoa, that's against the grain of what people say, and you talk... But very briefly. It's just a line, but it stood out and stuck in my brain and I'm like, "Oh, okay. Don't do anything with it yet. Revisit it later. And then save it essentially." And that's just fascinating to me because not too often that happens through emails these days I feel like where I'm like, "Oh, I need to save this." But I archive, like I save all your emails to copy them and then use them as my own Dylan Wilcox later down the road. But no, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. That's legal, right? No, I'm just kidding.

Liz Wilcox:

I think Dylan just proposed to me, you guys.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. I'm taking on the last name. It's 2022.

Liz Wilcox:

It's 2022 for heaven's sakes. Lance Bass would approve.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. But I save all your emails just because there's so much valuable information, not to copy them just to say that, but just to learn from them and reference them when I'm feeling stuck.

Dylan Schmidt:

But I thought that particularly good piece of information about not needing a funnel, and I was wondering, and I didn't ask you this beforehand, but because you're top of mind in my inbox and you do such a great job of staying in my brain with using email as a way that you don't need a funnel. Because I've been in marketing for a bunch of years. Over 10 years, I guess, digital marketing and done funnels and email marketing, all these things, but it's pretty a wide net, so I don't claim to be an expert on anything, really. But especially with funnels, like I was just... I've built funnels over the years and I just was going to build a new funnel, and just the tech involved and all the steps, it's costly for one, because the subscriptions to keep something going, got to set up the domain, all these things, it's just so time consuming. And I can see why people will get so let down by building a funnel.

Dylan Schmidt:

And when you say that, it's just like, wow, that's really important to remember and easily forgettable because you have funnel hackers out there that are like, "You need this software and you need all this stuff," and you break it down so nicely. I was just wondering if we could chat about that for a minute or two.

Liz Wilcox:

Yes. Oh gosh, yeah. Hang on. Let me get on my soapbox. Hang on. I got to grab it. No. When Dylan references funnels, when I say funnel, I mean sales funnel. I mean you're segmenting all the traditional, like, "Oh, they clicked this. So now they're going to go here and I've got it all automated and lovely and everything." Like Dylan said, that can be complicated, and I always tell people I'm a two step chick. If it takes three steps, I'm out. I just can't do it. When I started my business, I lived in 200 square feet. I lived in an RV. If you've ever been to the woods, you can understand my internet problem. I didn't have time for the funnel hacking. Right? And I didn't have any money for $100 a month software.

Dylan Schmidt:

300 a month.

Liz Wilcox:

Phew, I'm sweating. I got to take this sweater off. Gosh.

Dylan Schmidt:

And that's just for the software, not to mention the domain cost, the-

Liz Wilcox:

Amen.

Dylan Schmidt:

... get help costs because you can't figure it out yourself because it's confusing.

Liz Wilcox:

Right. Yeah. So, I mean, even with simple funnels, such as like using WordPress and ThriveCart, at the end of the day when I first started out, honestly, I just did not have the money for that. I had exactly $0 and zero support in my dream. And so I knew I had to pay for WordPress, I knew email marketing. Everyone tells me that's the way to go. I knew I had to pay for ConvertKit before they had the freemium offer. And then it was spent.

Liz Wilcox:

And so on top of traveling around, having a toddler, I realized I could just keep putting offers in front of people, I could create a great foundation with my welcome sequence, and I could follow up with people every single week, investing time, sharing, staying top of mind, and people could just buy as I sold. Right? And of course, people don't buy when you sell, they buy when they're ready. So it actually turned out that was a good strategy because some folks might buy on week two, and then I bring it up a couple months later, and the folks that had heard about it in January, now it's March, "Oh yeah, I need that now. I'm glad she brought that back up." Versus putting something into a funnel where they hear about it once and I just keep putting them through series and series and series, and they don't go through the customer journey the way I think they will.

Liz Wilcox:

And because for a funnel to work, and a sales funnel to work, you've got to have your customer research down. You really have to know your person, and you really have to be updating things. Right? If I make a reference to Justin Timberlake, and next year he does something that gets him canceled, I need to go back in that funnel and take JT out. Right?

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. You're gone, JT.

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah, that's just a very simple example. And with newsletters it allows your brand to evolve, and so you can try out different offers, especially in the beginning. If you're listening and you're like, "Yeah, I have my email, I've got a couple people on it. I don't email consistently," I really caution against just starting a funnel. Just start very simply where you get a very simple welcome sequence together, you start connecting with your audience through consistent newsletters, and we can talk about how to do that in a second, and just start putting offers out there. Because remember I said the email staircase, when you've got a list full of friends, you can basically just ask them, "Hey, do you want this?" When I did my $9 a month membership, I had no idea if it was going to work. Literally, the subject line was Can I Have $9?

Dylan Schmidt:

My favorite email of all time.

Liz Wilcox:

Oh good. We'll have to link to it in the show notes so people can see just how freaking simple it was. And I literally was like, "I don't know. I think this is what you need, but I'm not going to spend 20, 11 hours building it out, building the funnel to see if I can get 100 people in to see if it works. No, I'm just going to ask people if they buy, then I'm going to build it out and maybe I'll build out a funnel for it later." And to this day I just took that, "Can I Have $9?", and put it at the end of my welcome sequence and that's, quote unquote, my funnel for it. And of course I have affiliates, but at the end of the day, less than a year into that membership, I have nearly 1,000 people in it.

Dylan Schmidt:

That's incredible.

Liz Wilcox:

And it's just from talking about it over and over in my newsletters, asking other people to talk about it. So you don't necessarily need a funnel.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. So many things to say, but I like, for especially people beginning, I just want to say how true it is, everything you just said about you have to know your audience, your customer, your clients so well before you build the funnel, so you know what you're building, and then the work it takes to put in it is like it's easy. I think everything, especially digital marketing wise because the people who are selling the software make it so... That's their job is to make it simple. They want to onboard people. They're like, "You can build a funnel in as easy as 20 minutes." And just because you created a login in 20 minutes doesn't mean the funnel's done in 20 minutes, doesn't mean it's going to work, doesn't mean all the tech, all that's stuff. But their job is to make it like, "Hey, do it in 20 minutes." And like everything you said, I mean, email's so much more easier. And especially if you're not 100% confident on what you're doing, like don't waste that time or money, just go with email. Like why waste all that stress.

Dylan Schmidt:

What I particularly loved about your email subject line, and I'm pretty sure I read it... I rarely will like laugh out loud audibly when I say it, but it just made me crack up because it's like, "Can I have $9?" Because it's such a pattern interruption to see... Especially if you're even remotely into the marketing side of things, you just see things and you're like, "Oh, this is how they're doing this." You kind of see through the lines of how someone is asking for something. If it's $9, and then for you just say, "Can I have $9?", it's like, "Yeah, if that's all you want, hold on, let me go get my card." You know?

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah. Yeah. What's your Venmo? Yeah, for me it was also like the audacity of it. Of course I'm not asking for can I have $900? But if you have something low... And I would even, I mean, experiment. Why not? But as far as that subject line goes, for me, every subject I write is for a friend. So I think of all my subscribers as I'm really trying to make personal connections. And I really think of my products are not for selling, they're for serving. And so when I write subject lines, I think of it as a friend. Like if I know Dylan personally, what would I literally write to him? What would I write to him and what would the subject line be? It would be something much more casual than if I'm writing a blog post or I'm trying to get Instagram SEL all of a sudden. Because that's a thing, right?

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah.

Liz Wilcox:

I'm going to write in a different way. And if you think about it, what I talked about at the top of the hour, the same way you act in the mailbox is the same way as the inbox, then you're going to write those subject lines much easier. And for me, when I sell a product, when I have a new product, I go to my other business friends and I think, "Hey, wait, what do you think of this idea?" And sometimes I'll literally be like, "Hey, I want you to buy this. I've created this just for you. I was thinking about you, Camille, you, Lance, when I created this." So why wouldn't the subject be Can I Have $9? Not only does it stand out, but that's literally, if I needed $9, that's literally the exact words I would use to ask my buddy.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. And the rest of the email, so someone's not just like, "Oh, is this like a donation thing?" But reading the email, it connected in such a way of like, oh, no, you built this thing. You're doing this thing that's worth way more than $9 of course. And then it makes the $9 seem utterly small in comparison to the value that you get.

Liz Wilcox:

Ridiculous.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. And then at that point it's like this is worth more than $9, so it's a no brainer of course. And then reading it, it's not like, "Oh, can I have $9? Here's the donate button, GoFundMe for my new Amazon addiction or something." It's way more valuable than that. And I just was like, "This is incredible." And it just made me love you even more because it just broke my pattern, but also so real and honest. And it's like saying those things about email marketing in 2022 don't seem all that common. All the language and terms I'm using with you I feel like aren't... Like it's not just stuff you always talk about.

Liz Wilcox:

What, like fun and laughter? I love that so much, Dylan. Yeah. If you learn nothing else from Liz Wilcox, I just want everyone to know email doesn't have to be... It doesn't have to be gross. It doesn't have to be this big thing. It can be fun. I think I wrote about this on Instagram today. What would this look like if it was fun? I always ask myself two questions. Whether I'm writing an email, building a product doing a podcast episode like this, like number one, Liz, what would this look like if it was easy? Because people complicate stuff, we just do.

Dylan Schmidt:

Oh yes. I mean, I never do, but I've heard of people doing that.

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah. I'm sure you're perfect, right?

Dylan Schmidt:

Nah, I do all of that.

Liz Wilcox:

And then number two, what would it look like if it was fun? Because those are two different things. Like what would it look like if it was easy? Oh, well I would delegate it. Oh, well, I don't have enough money for that. So that's where that follow up question I created. What would it look like if it was fun? Oh, well, if it was fun today, Dylan and I would talk about... We'd open the episode with NSYNC. I would wear my crazy headband and shirt. I would have my NSYNC mug and I would try to make him laugh. Right? And suddenly wear off to the races and we're connecting.

Liz Wilcox:

And your idea of fun is not Liz's idea of fun. It's not Dylan's idea of fun. So that's where you can separate yourself. And with my membership, a lot of people say, "Oh, I got your email template and I felt like I was able to use it, but it actually sounded like me." And that's one of the things I love the most because I want you to get on my list, like Dylan says, and yes, I want you to steal all my emails. I want you to steal my subject lines. I want you to take everything that I write and use it. That's the perfect business.

Dylan Schmidt:

Change your words though. You know?

Liz Wilcox:

It's very meta, right. And so take it, use it as your own. But if you ask yourself those questions and you really, I don't know, look into yourself and you know a lot about your personality, you know, "Oh, Liz uses will Smith. What am I going to use?," it's going to make it so simple to translate into your own business.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. And the answer to that question is Jada, obviously.

Liz Wilcox:

Obviously.

Dylan Schmidt:

Obviously. That is beautiful. And again, I don't know if I've ever talked about email marketing and beautiful in the last seven years.

Liz Wilcox:

That's so great.

Dylan Schmidt:

This combo is just like not what... But that's what I love about you and what you do and how you serve. And question for you, because this is... I've done like marketing coaching for years too, and one of the things, the most commonly thing I see asked around email is people go, "Awesome. I want email, but I ain't got nobody on my email list. What's the point of emailing if there's nobody there?" And then they'll be like, "Oh yeah, I have 15 subscribers." Or maybe they have none, but sometimes they'll be like, "I have 15. I got nobody."

Liz Wilcox:

Well, if I was in a room with 15 people, I would feel like the shiz, right? I would be like, "Okay, I've got 15 leads here." Like 15 people on the screen doesn't seem like a lot. When you look at these big marketers. You look at Will Smith's account, he's got millions of folks. Right? But side note to that, Will Smith, depending on how many... I know he's got millions, but why doesn't he have a billion? He's a movie star. Right? Like it takes work no matter where you're at and you are.

Liz Wilcox:

But yeah. So at the end of the day, if you've got two people on your list and one of them is your mom, let's work that other one. And this is what I say about email marketing, and I talked about this a little bit, like really, truly connecting with your subscribers and using all those emails, like investing your time, sharing in a relatable way. Email is one-to-many, but when you do those things and you open up the conversation, it can become one-to-one. And that's where the customer research comes in. That's where the friendships build. That's where Dylan gets me on his podcast and he's like, "How do you get me to open your emails?" And it's because I've opened up that conversation, I'm willing to answer emails.

Liz Wilcox:

And this is so beautiful, using Dylan's word, when you have a small list, when you just have, you're getting literally one person at a time. You can literally say things like, "Hey, I'm just building this. I seriously only have 20 people on this list, but I'm dedicated to doing X, Y, Z for you. Hit reply and let me know X." And keep these questions very simple at first. Yes or no questions in your welcome sequence. Like for me, it's do you have an email list? Yes or no? Or do you have more than your mom on your email list? Yes or no? That person knows immediately the answer. You've got to ask yes or no questions at first. And then as you build your list, as it gets older and bigger, you can ask those more open ended questions. Like today, my email list is probably about two and a half years old. I literally asked the question, "What's up? No, seriously, hit reply."

Dylan Schmidt:

What the heck is up? You said, "What the heck is up?"

Liz Wilcox:

Oh yeah, what the heck is up, I said. What the heck is up?

Dylan Schmidt:

And in my mind I said, "What the F is up?" That's what I heard, Liz.

Liz Wilcox:

Okay. Dylan might know me better than I think he knows me. I think I did write F and then I erased it and put hell or heck or whatever.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. Mom might see this. Yeah.

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah. But anyway, I got something like 20 replies in like 20 minutes, but that's because I have that relationship. But as you're building it out, keep it small, keep those questions really simple. Right? If you're a crochet blogger, do you have crochet needles yet? Hit reply. Yes or no? If you're like a real estate agent, have you ever bought a house? Hit reply. Yes or no? Very, very simple questions. And do that consistently build it up. I hear so many, "Oh, I've tried to send out a survey. I've tried to ask questions. It doesn't work." Well, it's that TikTok... What's that... It's like have you tried every week? Are you emailing every week? Are you consistent? Are you telling people you expect them to reply? You guys know what audio I'm talking about. But you just have to keep going with it. And then as far as building your list, I'm happy to give some tips on that too.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just like a couple like super high level on what you've been seeing these days of how to even get someone on your list, I think as simple... And you keep everything simple, but I'm just saying for [inaudible 00:38:44].

Liz Wilcox:

I'll keep it simple. Yeah. So basically, what you have to know about list building is it's basically the same-

Dylan Schmidt:

Liz building or list building?

Liz Wilcox:

Liz building.

Dylan Schmidt:

Liz building. Got it.

Liz Wilcox:

List building. List. That's funny. I've never made that connection in my head. I'm going to have to ponder on that and use it somewhere.

Liz Wilcox:

What you have to know is list building and visibility are basically the same thing. The more people know who you are, the more you market, the more you listen to Dylan and his strategies, the more your list is going to build. And in order to make that true, you've got to have the right sort of freebie, opt-in, some kind of incentive to get people on your list. So think about what is the customer journey? What's the very last thing if I'm working with Dylan and I'm picturing a graduation ceremony, what would Dylan say he was able to do at the end? And then I'd take it all the way back. What's that first baby step I want you to know? And that becomes your freebie. So say you have already got that, let's put it in the right place. Your homepage, and you can go to lizwilcox.com and see that I've got it five or six times.

Dylan Schmidt:

Beautiful website, by the way.

Liz Wilcox:

You need to have it.

Dylan Schmidt:

Beautiful.

Liz Wilcox:

Thank you. Thank you. I paid a lot of money for it. You can Google Christie Cooper. She's great. So you've got to have it in three to five places. And your copy should be around getting people to sign up for that list. If your main thing is, "I'm going to go all in on this list building. Liz and Dylan say it's lucrative," then it's got to be on there three to five times. Your about page. You can go to my copy and you can read it and you can see. I'm telling a story about me, about you, but I'm leading you into, "Hey, your first step should be this freebie." Right?

Liz Wilcox:

And so as you go out and you do that visibility, you build up your Instagram content, maybe you're on TikTok, you're in Facebook groups, you're doing podcasts, as people start to go to your website, it's very easy for them, they know exactly what to do, they're going to sign up for your list. Dylan's going to ask me at the end of this podcast, I'll show you exactly how it's done to get you onto my email list. And so for me, personally, I make sure that's all set up, I make sure my freebie makes sense, and then for me, I post on my Instagram stories as my social media strategy, and then I get on podcasts. In 2021, I was on over 70 virtual stages, a few different in person things. But for me, that's my visibility strategy. You might go with Facebook groups. Or I'm sorry, Facebook ads. Let's say Dylan and I do a link exchange. I write an email that shares his freebie, he writes an email that shares mine. You can do those types of things, but really, you have to think about list building as a visibility thing.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. That's huge and makes sense. And to tie it to how I even found out about you is I was looking for... I was like, "I want to find some podcast on copywriting." So I was looking up and I found a... I think it was The Copywriter's Club I think it's called. The only episode I've listened to of their podcast was the one you were on. I literally was scrolling back, I happened to stop on yours. Because it wasn't like the [inaudible 00:42:12]. It was a older one. I was just scrolling and I was like, "What's one I want to listen?" And I don't know whether it was a headline or what it was, but something about yours made me listen to it, and then I'm just like, "Liz." And I haven't listened to another podcast episode of that because I was like, "I'm good. I got my Liz, and I'm good to go."

Dylan Schmidt:

But that visibility is like... It shows up in ways that it's almost hard to quantify, because there's no way you could have been like, "I'm going to go on this podcast." And then someone's going to find it, because it'll be the only episode they listen to of this podcast and then find me and contact me and then all that kind of stuff. So yeah, that's crucial. That visibility makes a lot of sense and I love that.

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah.

Dylan Schmidt:

Well, like you mentioned, I'm on team Liz, I have been since I heard your voice, but how do you work with people these days? Has it changed? Because I know you were doing like... You're not doing one-on-one work anymore, right? Or you are?

Liz Wilcox:

Correct. Correct. Dylan, I just want to say you are flattering me when you said, "Oh, since I heard your voice." Because my family always makes fun of me because my voice is so nasally. And also, when I did all those podcast episodes in 2021, I unknowingly was going through a really bad food allergy, and so my voice was really shaking a lot sometimes. And I was like, "Gosh, I sound nervous, but I just don't know what I ate." So thank you. Thank you.

Dylan Schmidt:

I love your voice. And I love... Because it's different. And I don't know, I think my own voice is nasal and it's always shocking to me when people are like, "Oh, you have a good voice." I'm like... I still don't like the sound of it. And so maybe I subconsciously identify with how you maybe aren't a good fan of your voice-

Liz Wilcox:

Oh, good, good.

Dylan Schmidt:

And we're both like...

Liz Wilcox:

That's so funny. And so let this be, like as you listen and we both complain about our nasally voices, let it be inspiration that despite nasal voices, we're both using podcasts as a visibility strategy.

Dylan Schmidt:

That's totally it.

Liz Wilcox:

So whatever you're insecure about, just go for it. So if you look in my brand photos and if you're watching snippets of this recording, you'll see I have a headband on. A lot of people think that's just like, "Oh, that's Liz. That's part of her branding." Well, I started because I have a forehead insecurity. I think my forehead is really big. And so when I started a YouTube live show back in the day with my other blog, I was like, "I have to wear a headband because I can't stop staring at my own forehead."

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah, I love it. Yeah.

Liz Wilcox:

So never know what those little insecurities are for people that you might be looking up to or learning from or thinking, "Well, it must be so easy for them." So that's just a side note inspo.

Dylan Schmidt:

I have to share one insecurity.

Liz Wilcox:

Sure.

Dylan Schmidt:

Let me just share an insecurity just to match, because I don't want to be like, "Oh, Liz shared an insecurity. Why didn't you share an insecurity?" I drive a Porsche. No, I'm just kidding. I don't drive a Porsche. That'd be my insecurity.

Liz Wilcox:

Oh my goodness.

Dylan Schmidt:

You know how they always say men who drive Porsches are insecure?

Liz Wilcox:

Uh-huh (affirmative). Uh-huh (affirmative).

Dylan Schmidt:

Let's see. Let me find... Well, I mean, there's multiple. I mean, I'd make a whole list, but I think the voice is huge. And I think it... Pretty sure it's a food allergy. I haven't got tested either, but on a lot of my videos, I don't think I have it right now, but on a lot of my videos, my nose is red and I think it's from a food allergy. Do you get that too?

Liz Wilcox:

Oh my gosh, Dylan and I are having epiphanies right here coming at you live. So one of my insecurities is my nose is just randomly sometimes red.

Dylan Schmidt:

Mine too.

Liz Wilcox:

I never connected it to my food. I'm allergic to a lot of things. So we might have to edit this out.

Dylan Schmidt:

No.

Liz Wilcox:

Or maybe your people are into it.

Dylan Schmidt:

I'm allergic to BS, Liz.

Liz Wilcox:

So I'm allergic... Oh, amen. I'm allergic to wheat, any kind of nuts, which sucks. Like all nuts. Like tree nuts, peanuts, legumes, all that nonsense. Tomatoes, chicken. I recently found out I'm allergic to avocados, cinnamon. I mean, just a lot of stuff. And I thought it was because I live in Florida and so I just need to wear more sunscreen. But even right now I've got this little red dot here. Oh my gosh, I'm going to Google this. Dylan, thank you so much for sharing your insecurity.

Dylan Schmidt:

Because I will film these videos or film social media videos usually in the afternoon and I don't usually eat till later in the day, and every time I'd go to record, it'd be bright red. And then I was like, "But I can't not record," so I put it out. And then I asked in my stories on Instagram, I was like, "Why is my nose red all the time in the afternoon?" [inaudible 00:46:53] but someone that was like, "Oh yeah, my son has that issue and it was food allergies." I'm like, "Oh." So I would just record them anyways, and I'm just like, "You know what? The red nose is here to stay." I tried everything. I'd put my head in the freezer, and then I would just... whatever. And then I'm just like, "If you see me with the red nose, that's the Rudolph signature right there."

Liz Wilcox:

Amen.

Dylan Schmidt:

So it's going to be what's going to be.

Liz Wilcox:

Ho, ho, ho, everybody.

Dylan Schmidt:

Christmas is 24/7.

Liz Wilcox:

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Thank you for sharing that because I haven't eaten yet today and I feel like I'm pretty even skin. But yeah, there's sometimes I'm like, "Wow, I look like a boozer."

Dylan Schmidt:

Right?

Liz Wilcox:

You know what I mean?

Dylan Schmidt:

Mine is a little red right now, but I totally know what you mean. Like totally know what you mean. I drink a couple times a year, but I love candy or I love food that probably is a food allergy. Yeah, and then in the afternoon. I forget what the original question was I asked you, but working with you.

Liz Wilcox:

How can we work with the one and only Liz Wilcox? Of course.

Dylan Schmidt:

The one and only. Yes.

Liz Wilcox:

So yeah, like Dylan said, I did retire my copy writing services. So Dylan found me through The Copywriter Club, which is a great episode. I go a lot more in depth on the RV travel blog, I think on that episode. But yeah, so I retired my copy services. I only started copywriting because I knew it was quick cash flow. And I knew email marketing was my zone of genius. Like Dylan said, I try to make everything really simple for people. I know everyone's overwhelmed. And I hate when you buy a five step program and it turns out to be 25 steps. Right? I really don't want that for people. I really want you to just get going and build that momentum. So that's what I wanted to go hard in, but I needed the capital first. So I just retired that. I was able to save up an entire year's salary. I'm really excited. Thank you so much.

Dylan Schmidt:

That's huge. Wow.

Liz Wilcox:

But nowadays my main thing is my membership. So the Can I Have $9 email we were talking about earlier, it's a $9 membership where I literally write an email template for you every single week and give you a video walkthrough of how you can use it. So no matter what kind of business you're in or what kind of tone, what kind of personality you have, you can really see yourself in the emails and you can see how it can work for you. I find that a lot of swipe files are just that. They're swipe files, right? It's like, "Oh, this was written for Liz Wilcox for Liz Wilcox's people. I don't know how it could work for Dylan." And so I didn't want that.

Liz Wilcox:

And so when you go into the membership, I literally send you every Monday morning, an email with that video walkthrough, I give you a detailed template, skeleton outline and two swipes from two different businesses in two different tones. So the longer you're in it, the more you can see these patterns of email, that psychology, how it all works together, how you can build the follower, friend, customer, et cetera, et cetera. And it's only $9 a month. Like I said, when I started, I had $0. But everything seemed so complicated. And so if that's where you are at with your email marketing, that's why I created the membership for you. And it's literally called Email Marketing Membership.

Dylan Schmidt:

I love it.

Liz Wilcox:

#SEO, right?

Dylan Schmidt:

I love it. Yeah. And that's one thing I love about everything about Liz is because it's like you sometimes will get in stuff and it's like, well, it's the $9, but if you want the real thing... And it's like you're just so transparent and raw and honest, and it's so inspiring because it's like I can do this. I don't feel like you deliver anything that I can't do. But it also feels like just enough of a stretch that it's like this is going to help me grow, but not so much that I'm like, "I don't know if I can do it." It's like you're right there. It's so valuable.

Liz Wilcox:

Oh, that's great to hear. I love that. I really mean it when I say like I'm on a freaking mission to make sure entrepreneurs can do email. And I love that you can get in there and get it done without stressing too much about it. Thank you for sharing that.

Dylan Schmidt:

Yeah. Yeah. And I will say, I don't know if... I didn't fact check this before I'm saying it, but I'm pretty sure you are the first person I've actually purchased just something from on the podcast that... I'm pretty sure you are, which is just cool. Because I usually just will feature pretty neutral, but I'm like, "Nah, I'm in, I've purchased," and it's awesome. So definitely check the show notes for Liz, and thank you so much for joining me today, Liz.

Liz Wilcox:

Thank you so much, Dylan. This was such a pleasure, and I really can't wait to see what everybody does with their email.

Dylan Schmidt:

Thank you again, Liz, for joining me on Digital Podcaster. It was a real honor to be able to speak with you. And that's one of the things I love most about this podcast is the chance to connect with people and chat with them for an hour. When else would that happen? I couldn't just hop on Zoom with Liz for an hour to connect about email and things that I genuinely enjoy talking about. So that's one of the things, one of the many things I love about this podcast is the opportunity to connect with Liz.

Dylan Schmidt:

If you'd like to connect with Liz, make sure to check the show notes. If there's one particular segment about this episode that you liked, please let me know, send an email to [email protected] And if you are interested in starting, growing, or monetizing your podcast, please visit digitalpodcaster.com. It would mean the world to me if you would take the 60 seconds, whatever it takes on Apple Podcasts on Spotify to leave a rating and a quick review. It would mean the world to me. It really helps the show out. So yeah, that's all I got for this episode. I'll see you in the next one.

 

To your success,

Dylan Schmidt

Digital Podcaster

Creator of PodcastingAcademy.com

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